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Posted by Paul
Interview with Dan Duchaine
Originally appeared in Hardcore Muscle, Issue 8, November 1995
We sat down with Dan Duchaine and conducted the following interview. What did we
think of Dan? – Very nice guy and where most people I hold in high esteem don't
hold up to my previous notions of them- he pretty much exceeded them. One thing
I admire about Dan Duchaine is that he can really focus on subjects –
incredibly, I might add. If this seems trivial to you, most likely you would
see what I'm talking about if you ever talk to him. You watch him talk and he
is targeted in on that subject. I came away from the interview with the thought
that Dan Duchaine has so much knowledge in his head that sometimes even he has
trouble getting his thoughts out because of the volumes and volumes of info he
has up there. Very open, very candid and not afraid to call them like he sees
them. I had a blast doing this interview because you could really see Dan click
‘on' and roll when he finds the subject interesting. We thank him for his time;
he definitely is a busy man. This guy is a problem solver, a theorist, and a
researcher and a damn good one at that. We hope we didn't pass over any
questions you might have for the "Guru" – Here we go:
you give us a brief overview of your new book Body Opus and when it will be
is way behind schedule but hopefully by January 1st it should be
available throughMM2000. It is a diet book. It's probably too long, too
complicated, but it has three sets of diets in it. Your traditional high
carb-low calorie, then the isometric diet which is equal amounts of carbs, fats
and protein and then the Body Opus, a.k.a. anabolic diet which is another thing
we did in the Ult dieting handbook in 1982 and another creation from Michael
Zumpano's rebound training system from 1980. One of those three diets will be
applicable for someone but the diets in this book are not necessarily for
people overweight or fat. It is mainly for athletes who are normal- maybe 15%-
and want to get down very low for one reason or another. And I slowly emptied
my head of every scrap and tricks and answered questions like “Why is it that
diets stop working?” and “What can you do to fix it?”And all the drugs, all the
nutrients and there is a big section on diuretics which isn't really applicable
to everyone but maybe the 100 or so
athletes that really need it will read it here and not end up in the hospital.
rebound diet is that with the insulin effect during the workout that…?
it was the first thing of restricting carbs radically. It was a ten day program
and it wasn't to lose fat as much as it was to gain muscle. It was like 7 days
of carb restriction and 3 days of carbing up – which was too long because it
didn't fit very well into a schedule and people were getting overtrained too
easily. I condensed it down to 5 days carb restricting and 2 days carbs … which
is basically the same anabolic diet which Mauro Dipausquale has, but he's not
too precise with what kinds of fats to eat, and what kind of proteins and how
to carb up. He just says to eat anything and that is not exactly true. Some
people can eat anything and do very well for the 2 days but a lot of people
need more precision on how many carbs and how often- it's all in there. So it's about 500 pages and it will condense
down to 300 pages and hopefully we will keep the price well under $30.00-
because I don't like the idea of $50.00 for you know … whatever- a Leo Costa
HM: We hear you are currently working with Next
Nutrition, in a research and design capacity …
I have an office there.
we look forward to anything new and innovative coming from this label in the
course you know that Next Nutrition would never do a copy of anything anymore.
I mean Next Nutrition started out being a copy cat – mostly they ripped off
Champion Nutrition when Michael Zumpano was the leader. In fact I helped David
Jenkins (Next Nutrition owner) on how to duplicate Metabolol – no big thing. Interesting enough, back in 1984 or so, Scott
Connelly already had a crude version of MET-RX. When I met Connelly at his gym
in Santa Clara, he was already peddling the MET-RX back then in hospital
situations. Zumpano actually improved on his formula and came out with
Metabolol. Frankly Metabolol is pretty good and probably just as good as
MET-RX, although MET-RX has spent a lot of money on starch technology, so it
tastes better. But as far as protein, it is a pretty common protein.
HM: On the fats, you seem to say…
it is a new product called ID cubed (that's ID³). It's an offshoot of my
isometric diet and yea, I think it is unique in that it is the first powdered
product that has a very high fat in it. As high as I can get before the powder
starts to clump up on me. Ideally I would like to have one-third fat, but
production-wise it's not feasible. Hopefully we will have close to 30% fat in there.
It's an interesting array of fats- a little bit of MCT's, sunflower oil (a new
genetic strain which is high in oleic) which is a mono-saturated fat, and it
will have CLA's (conjugated linoleic acids)… which I believe is the first
product to have that in there… very expensive- it raises the retail cost of the
product over $10.00 a can… but 2 servings a day will give you all the benefits of
CLA's which means inhibition of the prostaglandin 2 series, the two main
prostaglandins that cause catabolism. Also there is another thing called
Hydroxy Methyl Butrate, which you will be reading about in MM2000. It has only
been recently approved for human consumption. It is a bonafide anticatabolic.
It is really interesting the way it works. It inhibits muscle trauma through a
workout by increasing the amount of intramuscular fat so instead of using
predominately type 2 muscle fibers, you are also engaging type 1 which is slow
twitch… so that allows more tension over more fibers, so you have less trauma
on the type 2. It translates to lowered Methylhystedine in the urine and
Creatinine Phosphokynase in the blood. Those
are two markers that tell you how much trauma. And in human studies using HMB
(on only 2500 calories) they all gained an average of 3 lbs. of muscle in 3
weeks using 3 grams a day of HMB. I have it in the ID³ that 2 servings a day
will give you the 3 grams a day of the HMB.
HM: Will that stop the hypertrophy of type 2
fibers at all, if it's going to…
actually you know, most of the problems of not growing are that there is too
much trauma and not enough recovery time. Bodybuilders create a whole bunch of
trauma and then work out again before their muscles are normal and create more
trauma. You want some trauma but not too much. (Dan went on to say that it will
be marketed as a diet product because realistically that is what the market
calls for – but he feels depending on how you use it – it will do well as a
weight gainer (as it was originally intended) or as a dieting supplement. He
feels you will get more for your money than Phosphagain and other products that
are at the top of the market sales wise.)
you surprised by the extreme following you have, almost cult like?
That's news to me. First of all, I have been locked away for 30 months. I don't
really socialize. I'm a real loner. My wife and I keep to ourselves. I'm quite
loyal to the employees at Next Nutrition. It's like almost family up there. But
I don't go to the contests too much. It's nice what readers say, but I'm not a
messiah. I'm just a guy answering questions- You know … I try to solve
interesting problems. I think I pretty much of this year solved a lot of damn
good ones, as far as training and how to eat and everything. I'm happier about that because before it was
an easier job because all I had to solve were problems pertaining to steroids.
And that's easy if you specialize on something – just steroids. It's not that
hard. There is not that much written about them so all you had to do was to
memorize the research and bullshit the rest. But now between the drugs,
nutrients and training you have to…
HM: Were you surprised of all the letters you
received while you were in prison?
YEA, considering I was out of the public eye and a small column a month in a
HM: At one time you were quoted as saying, “The
final frontier in bodybuilding would be insulin and the various areas associated
with it.” Do you still feel it is the final frontier or has something changed
but that's kind of sly because you know IGF-1 is an offshoot of insulin… Growth
Hormone too. Yea probably… for Nutrition... for day to day people- all the
people in the gym that look like shit. YES – obviously when they went to their
high carb diets a few years ago, it just is not working. So they could work on
their insulin and work on their pumpability and body fat – Yes. But drugs – who
knows. There are so many weird drugs
HM: Especially out of Europe. Which we will
touch on later in a couple of questions.
Dan you seem to be standing back on this one. Colgan thinks it will bring on
the age of the superfreak, while you have only spoken of its use in fat
reduction. We know GH never panned out as incredible as everyone wanted it to.
Do you want to make sure it is the real deal before you give it your stamp of
approval? We keep hearing every imaginable scenario ranging from “the stuff is
fantastic” to “didn't do anything for me”. Do you have any opinions of how it
is best used? It was reported to work a lot better with GH in a study. Do you
have any theories on how or what compounds (steroids, anticatabolics, insulin
mimickers) could be used in a synergistic protocol for best results with IGF?
Colgan really calls it all the time, doesn't he? (Laughs) Because he's
always wrong – when Twinlabs changes their mind. Vanadyl Sulfate is toxic but
now that Twin is selling it, it's not toxic anymore! But anyway, enough about
Colgan. You know the thing is … I've never seen any real IGF-1. All the stuff
I've seen pictures of and read about is the lab cell culture which is doctored
not to bind on the carrier proteins. So it would probably be wonderful. You
sent me a couple of reports and I some others and if you look at the amounts
they were using, it was quite high actually. Because of a four hour half-life
they were using it twice a day, at a calculated dosage of 18mg a day. That's a
very high amount. And these bodybuilders are taking 50 micrograms. And I find it hard to believe that 50
micrograms might do anything considering… God knows what they might have
stacked on top of that. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think IGF will be terrific once
it gets cheap enough to use. And you really want it to bind on the carrier
proteins. You want it last for the 4 hours. The cell culture stuff has a half
life of 20 minutes, you don't want that. It's as short as Growth Hormone… you
have to use high amounts. Eventually someone will offer it either out of Russia
or Australia. Of course you know, there
were some side effects such as jaw pain and weird funky stuff. And it does work
well with GH synergistically. They're just the opposite of each other. IGF-1
would lower your blood sugar and GH does the opposite. Together it stabilizes
it. So the worst thing you could do is use IGF-1 and insulin at the same time,
you would conk out. I think it has a lot of potential. The only problem with
all that stuff… if you remember back to the geriatrics using GH, when they stopped
using GH, within a few weeks all the benefits ceased. At least when you stop
steroids, it takes a year or more for all those gains to completely disappear.
And I'm afraid for the high expense of IGF-1, that when you go off it, I wonder
how long it will last.
HM: Yea, a couple people told us they used it,
and they said how awesome it worked and they weren't using anything else.
yea you know how that goes – “I'm 190 and ripped” and you see them in real life
and it's a fat piece of shit. (We are all laughing hard.) It's like on the
internet, everybody is big and strong and ripped – on the computer and you meet
them in real life and they are little dorks!
HM: (Laughing) Hypothetically, if you were
going to use IGF-1, would you use it with…?
yeah, steroids, GH, you would want to use it all for a synergistic effect. But
definitely with Growth Hormone, all the studies say it's not only additive… put
it this way… if you could get a ½ pound gain from IGF-1, and a ½ pound gain
from Growth Hormone – If you put them together you wouldn't get just one pound,
you would get much more, they are synergistic with the two added together… so
yea, go for it.
HM: Anything on the amounts of Growth Hormone?
I think, nobody has used enough Growth Hormone because of the cost. The only
guy I know of, the rumors were that (top WBF guy) was using like 12 IU's of GH
a day. Every day. I don't know if that's true but that is pretty close to what
someone should be using, for best results I would think. In the PDR, it's
pretty cut and dry in what you should be using. The Genetech is not as
efficient as the Lilly. It's microgram per kilogram – you can figure it out. It seems that a lot of bodybuilders are going
low in dosage. In the early 80's it was worse, the recommended dosage was 2
IU's a week at $90 bucks a pop – like 2 IU's would even do anything. And people
were wondering why it didn't work…
HM: Yea you might as well pound down some
know stunted growth children were taking it 3 times a week, but I don't know
why only 3 times a week. Why not every day?! It seems logical to me that it
should be every day. It's just like IGF-1 is supposed to be twice a day. And GH
is even shorter acting so who knows.
HM: Do you still feel Nolvadex can be put to
good use – even though studies show it to decrease serum blood IGF levels in
the body by 25%? Many have theorized that it lessens the muscle gains on a
steroid cycle – do you agree?
said that even though they liked to use Nolvadex during dieting, they always
found that during the off-season… they grew better without it. That was
interesting. It might be the IGF-1. We somehow thought it was tied to estrogen
but I don't know why. It depends. Past a certain age… like I'm 43 … if you
measured my growth hormone and IGF-1 at middle age it is not very large. Would
reducing it 25% make a major difference when it is so low to begin with?
Probably not. It depends. As you get older, estrogen is more important to avoid
for a lot of reasons, you know… prostate cancer, this and that. But when you
are young, you could probably avoid Nolvadex. You know so many people have
spent so much money on Nolvadex to combat gyno that they could have
easily gotten the surgery for the same amount of money and cured the problem.
Half of the people who go through puberty usually get some kind of gyno. They
don't necessarily remember it, but it happens. And if you had gyno as an adolescent
you are going to get it if you use steroids – unless you totally avoid all the
things that would cause it. And I don't know if Nolvadex will help those kind
of people. I don't know if it is a real preventative. Close to two bucks a tab
– get the surgery.
How do you feel about Clomid's use as a
prevention of gyno – Overrated? Could a 2 on 2 off program of Clomid be
something in which gyno could be prevented in your opinion?
know Teslac is an ideal antiestrogen but we could never find it out of the
country, and we looked too. Clomid … inexpensive in Mexico but very expensive
here. Everyone has done quite well with it for raising testosterone if you are
young enough with 2 tabs a day. As far as an… they never approved it as an
antiestrogen because it was more toxic than Nolvadex. Most people who use
Clomid, they are not using it all year long. The problem is everyone's using so
much testosterone – not a little but a lot! Back in the 80's we thought there
was some kind of precision to anabolic use but now it is not quality but
HM: Have you had a chance to look at the other
growth factors (EGF, Fibroblast growth factor, Nerve growth factor, TGF etc.) …
If so, do you feel any or all of these are interesting on a muscle building
sure! There has been some research that the Epidermal growth factor has been
effective … but all the G.F.'s have been marketed at such a high price that
people are unable to use high dosages. But who knows what's going to happen
when prices come down and people are on some higher dosages. At the higher
dosages, who knows what will be the outcome.
HM: Have you heard any insight on the new fat
hormone drug in development?
.. a few years ago we were talking about brown fat and having the beta 3
receptors and I believe they figured out that Leptin is one of the naturally
occurring beta 3 agonists in the body. The interesting thing about beta 3
receptors is that there's not many in the body, you got many more beta 2
receptors in the muscle. The beta 3's
are only in small areas. However the nice thing about Leptin is you don't need
a lot and unlike Clenbuterol, you don't down regulate the receptors. So for
bodybuilding it might be pretty good. However for most of the obese people who
think they are going to need it, some research has shown that they (obese) have
genetically damaged beta 3 receptors that don't accept it. And many obese
people have very high Leptin levels already. The body is trying to compensate
so it's not going to help them too much. But it will be good for athletes
because – Clenbuterol is good but only lasts 2-3 weeks at a time unless you
jack up the dosage sky-high. As I mentioned on an audiotape a while ago, there
is another thermogenic compound that I'll probably introduce at the end of the
year. Even though I promised January 1. It is much more thermogenic than
Clenbuterol and doesn't even involve those receptors at all. It is much better
and cheaper. More dangerous though because if you take too much you don't get
sick… you die! Because you raise your body temp over 105 degrees and your
cooked brain turns to poached eggs. So I have been hesitant introducing it or
writing about it without some safeguards.
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